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forum.kymlun.com • View topic - Raise Dead and Ressurrection

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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '09, 23:26 
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Acid's new plot evil seems to bring much unease. I think we need to clearly state that he's a DM and as far as I know he doesn't -attack- or bully any low levels but instead plays a fearsome evil that can be warded off by holy means somewhat easily.

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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '09, 23:54 
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Let me remind everyone involved that:

* I am not here to hold anyone's hand.
* I am not here to resurrect, heal or assist anyone if it is OOC for my characters to do so.
* If you antagonize a monster/evil PC, you get what's coming to you.
* I am aware that it really sucks getting killed by higher levels, but guess what: life is not fair, and if you end up dying, you probably provoked it. Understand that you've got to watch your back in an IC way if you wish to survive.
* I will roleplay all hostile situations, but sometimes people don't put in the same amount of effort as I do. So if you do not want to roleplay conflict, and rather roleplay warm and fluffy events then please send me a tell ASAP.
* All antagonist PCs I play are fairly easy to ward off, disrupt, talk out of. You just have to play intelligent and adapt with your environment.
* While my characters can be bi***es, I am fairly easy going as a person. If I happen to mutilate your character, I will consider you as a player. Just don't take it personally and complain about it.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Apr 18th, '09, 01:18 
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Uhm, just my two...no, three cents here...but. the topic seems to have stretched a bit wide, yes?
Firstly, the death-rules. (still in my opinion a quite fair one on characters...everybody hates to die, but sometimes...well, who can predict a series of crits by a goblin!!!???)
Secondly, the cleric's role. (to me it seems like the cleric is -the- means of the server to fill in the role of those ress-wands, replacing them with actually played characters...quite less effective, and seemingly way more costly, since items are required....but lots more RP-intensive)
Thirdly, the level-gaps/alignment-issue. (not sure which one was ment, to me both seem valid. Having epic chars around as well as low characters does create conflicts at times...does a lower level have any knowledge about said epic? If not, is the epic entitled to be treated different from anybody else the low chars meets...as in, respected as an authority figure, even if totally unknown? Or, if an epic char declares himself, is a lower level char inclined to truly believe or trust the epic..especially when phrases are uttered that go against everything the lower level believes in?)

Respect is a word I have heard a lot lately. To me respect isn't a katana, but a two-bladed axe....maybe not as sharp, but working both ways.
Having an epic evil talk down on a lower level is perfectly acceptable, but the lower level not accepting the epic evil's words should be, also IC taken, acceptable also.
Respect also in the way rules are regarded. One will defend, another will dislike them...*shrugs* That's the way it is. Until a rule is changed it -is- the rule. Period. Then again, as long as the discussion is fed with valid points (of view)...both ways, I can only sit back and enjoy reading.
Respect, finally (yes, I am coming to a close..at last) for those that are willing to play divine classes...devoting their lives to healing the wounds of others and the world. It's something I dearly miss on many servers. The term clearly states it, though? Divine casters....they channel divine power (or whatever you want to call it)...meaning, there's a god or goddess behind it. That -should- mean something, right? And I hope it will.

And with those words I leave you all.....way past bedtime again *sighs*.
But, on the bright side, I think I made some sense...somewhere...about something.....I hope. (too tired to read back, sorry)

Just a Half(ling) Thought.

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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '09, 06:40 
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Well, since I do not have anything against darker or more violent rp, I would not be the first to say that life isn't unfair. However, if server offers experiences like this, it would be significantly less frustrating if the new players had a good chance of growing in levels so that they can pay the bad treatment back in due time. So if a violent, evil and nasty pc bullies you, and ends up killing you, the least one can expect is to be able to rise to that pc's level, and kick his or her evil posterior for good to settle the score - or at least have a fair chance trying it.

Such, of course, leads to grinding and adventuring (since rp exp just will not bring you to a level 24's or highers level when you are at level 13). Which, in turn, leads to increased mortality numbers on it's own, if we don't even take account the fact that one has already been killed by the evil and nasty pc.

Now, I'm actually glad to have this conversation taking a loop towards death penalties in general. My suggestion was to ease the system a bit without actually weakening it, while even bolstering the capacity of one a bit underestimated class. Now I would not have anything against lower death penalties or more ways to circle it (since cleric is never able to help himself, eh?), but I saw the cleric alternative as a good way to bring some ease to the players, since dying sucks anyway. You can't always count on a cleric being there, or the cleric staying alive, so you have to be careful.

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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '09, 23:08 
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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '09, 23:16 
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You just made Galiae sad. Good job Vince. ._.

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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '09, 23:23 
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Bah don't be sad about my sarcastic comments ^_^ If you could just hear the tone of voice I said that in, in my head XD

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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '09, 23:56 
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I meant the character, not myself. XD *derailing topic*

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PostPosted: Apr 20th, '09, 04:25 
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PostPosted: Apr 20th, '09, 09:40 
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I got what I wanted, so naturally I want more
What I paid for, entertain me now
All I want is more, cos I like it
Too good to let it go, keep it coming
Cos I want more, cos I'm not sure
What I really wanted, so all I want is more


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PostPosted: Apr 20th, '09, 13:33 
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Here's my input, I don't care for you to riposte with anything 'cause i'm not going to defend it with line after line of retort.


Firstly if an evil PC kills you, chances are they aren't going to bother resurecting you. They are likely lawful or neutral evil, and therefore have a reason for wanting you dead, or chaotic evil, in which case their main concern is that you've bloodied their boot and that dry cleaning might be more money than what they have just taken from your corpse.

Ultimately, though, a lot of the evil PC's, since this seems to be the major issues here, can resurect you free of charge if the plotline deems it necessary. There are DM wands and PDM commands which allow for this. Should the DM/PDM feel that the consiquences are deserving of a free resurection, IE you have been subdued, or brought to the brink of death but not killed, for questioning, or even just toying with, then it's perfectly chanceable that you will recieve a free raise. On the other hand, if you have been grinding orcs for the past half an hour and recieved an axe to the face it is more likely that they will use their resurection items, should they have them, and rightly so.

In short, comparing death by evil PC and death by monster is not really something I personally see as a valuable argument. If you choose to fight mobs, you take that risk. Would you be so willing to grind away your life, for example, if death were permanent? I know I wouldn't.


As far as PvP is concerned of course, if you've been attacked without their first asking permission OOC in the case of hiding assassins or rogues, or given IC warnings in the case of honourable barbarians and warriors and paladins, then there's something the matter there and it's something you'll have to deal with with the players who are ganking you but even then, I personally see no quarrel with some one leaping from alleys and thrusting blades in my face, i would have no say in reality, i should have no say here either.

On the note of revenge, if you want something done against an undead threat stand in solinar, gather a DM and begin spouting lines to the air, I'm certain many DM's would happily spawn you an angry mob with torches and forks, or a few left wing zealots to assist you in your quest, if you can't tackle it alone.

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PostPosted: Apr 20th, '09, 18:07 
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PostPosted: Apr 20th, '09, 21:49 
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NwN was always about dragons, magic, and all that but everyone and their moms wants to make fun of the little fantasies you like,wtf?

In all seriousness though, there's always going to be conflict with good and evil pcs because in my view it FAILS in any mmo they're better off in rpgs consoles so we don't have to whine about why did that bastard kill me? Same with dragons ect.

Death is also an issue on nwn on whatever mod you play on your always going to expect a 20 crit out of random and a pending of xp, and like Epic said theirs always going to be drama with that...

That's my views :)


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PostPosted: Apr 21st, '09, 07:01 
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We're slipping off the matter again. However, I have little more to say. It's up to you whether anything is actually done to the death system. As it is, I'm certain that many new players (especially those who don't feel comfortable with hardcore penalties) will find the system unattractive, but in the end it's all about what kind of players, and how many players you wish to have on the server. I'm certain that there are people who absolutely love the large penalties. Still, I'm certain that there are more people who'd like to have them altered a bit, whether by boosting cleric's magic or some other means that affects all.

ps.

One option would have the death strip character of all his exp that goes over his current level - the penalty would be large at high levels, but it'd spare lower lever characters some if they went dying a lot. In addition, it'd cause far less frustration when one'd not go losing levels so easily. Raise dead and ressurrection could offer some aid (becoming critical at higher levels), offering a mellower xp penalty that still would not delevel if the character had so little xp that the only benefit from the spell is not acquiring a soul shard. Then, ressurrection with a rare diamond would actually be the spell of ownage it is today, raising one completely without an xp penalty. It might be reasonable to consider giving raise dead such ingredient too (or at least one that makes the penalty even smaller - perhaps not as rare as diamond). Then raise dead would be an utility spell you can use after battle or when finding a body in safe environment.

Of course, faith tokens would have no place in such system, but they are by large useless anyway, as you don't need them for money (though you can get some items quicker if you solo and do not accept outside help), you can already buy some magic items from the shop and releveling could be achieved by applying a small xp penalty to each attempt. They also look ugly in the inventory and take space (though one doesn't often mass enough items for this to matter).

In general, you might still want to cling to your old system, but my idea is pretty much the same, just a bit easier for players and far less frustrating. I think the xp penalty at higher levels might actually be a bit more than it is now, especially if you are close to leveling, but that'd just make somebody able to raise you an important person, be it a cleric or a guy with a scroll.

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I got what I wanted, so naturally I want more
What I paid for, entertain me now
All I want is more, cos I like it
Too good to let it go, keep it coming
Cos I want more, cos I'm not sure
What I really wanted, so all I want is more


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PostPosted: Apr 21st, '09, 15:00 
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